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 Subject :BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-19- 16:12:53 
K5LXP
Member
Joined: 2014-01-01- 13:06:12
Posts: 41
Location: Albuquerque NM

So did AREDN "win"?  There sure hasn't been much activity with BBHN since Hamcom last year.

From the Hamcom 2016 forum schedule:

AREDN: The Successor and Future of BBHN
Presenter: Conrad Lara KG6JEI

Description: An overview of the Amateur Radio Emergency Data Network project and how it can help you meet the growing need to be able to transmit large amounts of data efficiently over Amateur Radio. Discussion will be from 13:00 - 14:50

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Mark K5LXP
 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-19- 17:10:50 
NG5V
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Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:06:23
Posts: 43
Location

Win??? are you kidding?  Look at the number of users that need only show up in the same area to use their mesh devices. Who supports people using inexpensive (or free) devices that feature built in network switches, and who walked away from them? Some of those WRT54xx solutions are the easiest to use on a table top and they still participate with the larger mesh.

I think you might be confusing lot of software churn with progress. BBHN users don't have to stop and see what channel is needed, what bandwidth to use or what other configuration changes they have to do (after consulting other mesh users to get the "correct" local answers for that event)

Our software is made to use, not to tweak constantly. How else can lots of unrelated groups just show up and work together. You can always add changes and try to sell them as features. The largest challenge for current users and new adopters shouldn't be the learning curve just to make a link. It should be what can you deliver to current situation using these flexible data networks? Can you set them up quickly and without the need for your senior mesh experts to be at every site just to handle the configuration.

If you read through the forums, the biggest hurdle for new users is what to do with a portable broadband data network. This stuff is different enough from packet and HF data that many hams are still trying to get that part fully understood. The basic setup and linking is not hard if you use supported devices. It certainly doesn't get easier if you add large numbers of configuration options and extra steps to the basic process. Who benefits if lots of mesh devices and hams show up at a site and behave just like members of different federal agencies and response groups, all with equipment that won't interoperate?



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 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-20- 04:59:31 
K7FPV
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Joined: 2015-12-04- 19:49:31
Posts: 3
Location
I know for our mesh we really struggled with getting anything outdoors to really work until we got off the part 15 freqs. The noise floor for us was -80 and we could only get a 100-300Kbps to go through on chan 1. Once we switched to AREDN on chan -2 with 802.11n our noise floor dropped to -92 and speed went to 10Mbps+. All the sudden everything worked including video, ip cams, team talk etc, where before we could ping and that was it.
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 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-21- 05:05:36 
WU2S
Member
Joined: 2013-07-22- 16:29:28
Posts: 4
Location: FN20
 

Putting feature-sets aside for a minute, I think this is what differentiates AREDN from BBHN:

Where BBHN is geared for the hobbyist who finds cool things to do with mesh networks, like Field Day logging, neighborhood networks, Internet sharing, etc., AREDN’s focus is robust, high-performance, ham-supported Hastily Formed Networks (HFN) for disaster response and humanitarian emergencies.

In these scenarios the served-agencies are dependent on well-planned infrastructure which works, and well-trained individuals that know how to use the communications devices they bring.

You would not simply show-up to one of these incidents and expect to become part of the solution… you would far more likely become part of a problem:

  • Not having drilled with the agency you would be completely unfamiliar with their procedures and protocol.
  • Your node may, or may not, be configured consistent with the network plan, as NG5V has pointed out. 
  •  Your PC may have a virus or other malware which could infect other PCs, or for that matter, your nodes could infect the entire mesh network affecting first-responders and placing their safety in jeopardy; (ref recent Ubiquiti press: “Foul-mouthed worm takes control of wireless ISPs around the globe”). 
  •  Without basic knowledge of how your nodes operate and are configured, you will not be able to perform basic troubleshooting of links and their performance. 

Even from a historical standpoint, you would never show up to support an emergency without knowing how to operate and configure your VHF/UHF radio.

So in the end, it all comes down to your specific use-case. If you intend to utilize mesh networking for cool, hobby related purposes, then BBHN is for you. Linksys, the primary device they espouse, will serve you well, and there’s no need to worry about future firmware upgradeability because they already do all the things you will ever need them to do. However, if your intended use involves HFNs for disaster agencies and their responders, then the only choice is AREDN.

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Last Edited On: 2016-05-21- 07:24:04 By WU2S for the Reason Improved readable with vertical spacing
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Risk assessment: A guess multiplied by an approximation taken to the power of an expert opinion.
 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-21- 05:06:32 
WU2S
Member
Joined: 2013-07-22- 16:29:28
Posts: 4
Location: FN20
 
Putting feature-sets aside for a minute, I think this is what differentiates AREDN from BBHN: Where BBHN is geared for the hobbyist who finds cool things to do with mesh networks, like Field Day logging, neighborhood networks, Internet sharing, etc., AREDN’s focus is robust, high-performance, ham-supported Hastily Formed Networks (HFN) for disaster response and humanitarian emergencies. In these scenarios the served-agencies are dependent on well-planned infrastructure which works, and well-trained individuals that know how to use the communications devices they bring. You would not simply show-up to one of these incidents and expect to become part of the solution… you would far more likely become part of a problem: Not having drilled with the agency you would be completely unfamiliar with their procedures and protocol. Your node may, or may not, be configured consistent with the network plan, as NG5V has pointed out. Your PC may have a virus or other malware which could infect other PCs, or for that matter, your nodes could infect the entire mesh network affecting first-responders and placing their safety in jeopardy; (ref recent Ubiquiti press: “Foul-mouthed worm takes control of wireless ISPs around the globe”). Without basic knowledge of how your nodes operate and are configured, you will not be able to perform basic troubleshooting of links and their performance. Even from a historical standpoint, you would never show up to support an emergency without knowing how to operate and configure your VHF/UHF radio. So in the end, it all comes down to your specific use-case. If you intend to utilize mesh networking for cool, hobby related purposes, then BBHN is for you. Linksys, the primary device they espouse, will serve you well, and there’s no need to worry about future firmware upgradeability because they already do all the things you will ever need them to do. However, if your intended use involves HFNs for disaster agencies and their responders, then the only choice is AREDN.
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_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Risk assessment: A guess multiplied by an approximation taken to the power of an expert opinion.
 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-21- 16:32:34 
K5LXP
Member
Joined: 2014-01-01- 13:06:12
Posts: 41
Location: Albuquerque NM
No need to sell the premise of BBHN to me. The reason I jumped on board at V1.0 was the utility of a self configuring network with cheap available hardware. ARDEN seems to be on a bent to become a ham ISP, which I believe is folly. For some reason they believe consumer hardware and forever beta software is going to be the solution served agencies will run to "when all else fails". I guess they haven't heard of commercial base station routers that have been available for nearly a decade that are autonomous, self configuring, and allow the served agencies to use their own hardware and encryption as though nothing happened. It has become somewhat comical to see the efforts they're going through to practically accomplish very little. I'm just the messenger here. I saw the forum title over at the Hamcom site and indeed, it appears AREDN/Conrad has taken some liberty in announcing BBHN's demise. Problem is, most people who might have a passing interest in HSMM don't know the story and may not know which might be better for their application. I know I have no interest in what AREDN is doing and I believe BBHN is a better fit for what most clubs and individuals may want to do in the field. Last year at Hamcom there was a lot of enthusiasm from the BBHN folks, and haven't heard a peep since. The difference in scope notwithstanding, AREDN does seem to have the advantage in terms of keeping interest up through active development. I would like to see some improvements to BBHN in terms of ease of use, improved interface and such, and I think if there were active development of some kind it might gain some attention and visibility. Mark K5LXP Albuquerque, NM
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Mark K5LXP
 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2016-05-22- 02:55:50 
K5KTF
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:04:04
Posts: 264
Location: 5' from this webserver
  

BBHN is alive and well.

Over the past SIX YEARS we are almost to 6,500 registered users on the web site! I wouldnt consider that dead by any means.

We add 10-50 people a week to the rosters on the web site (I know... I activate each and every one! Every morning and every night). Just because we arent forcing updates on our users every other week doesnt mean people are still using it. If it aint broke, dont fix it (OK, so there might be the issue with the latest UBNT, but there is a workaround by flashing down first, then installing BBHN).

With all of the BBHN developers now having real full-time jobs or pursuing higher education (Masters in Aerospace, IT Admin at a rocketship company, firmware developer at an IP phone company, etc), things have just slowed down a bit, writing new code and testing, because we want BBHN users to only get the very best. We built and promoted Broadband to the masses and got it all working, so now maybe we can scale back and focus on perfection.



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Last Edited On: 2016-05-22- 03:28:46 By K5KTF for the Reason
B-) Jim K5KTF EM10bm Cedar Park, TX :star:
 Subject :Re:BBHN dead?.. 2017-04-27- 00:20:15 
n7wwk
Member
Joined: 2012-12-02- 12:37:42
Posts: 9
Location: Putnam Co Fl - EL99EP
 
I must agree with Jim, if it ant brok don't fix it! Any future up grades shoul be back word compatable, with the latest version we have plenty of features. Focus now should be in the direction of improving what we do and how we do it. As with all radios, a better antenna is usually the solution not increasing the power or changing bands. So I vote for focsing on improving, on hove use our nodes. Not changing our firmware / software. Bob N7WWK Putnam Co. Fl.
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