Broadband-Hamnet™ Forum :: General
Welcome Guest   [Register]  [Login]
 Subject :44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-21- 11:34:58 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok

Am I missing something? So far I have not seen anyone use the 44 block for their mesh network. Is there a reason for this?

IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-21- 16:09:51 
AD5OO
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
Location

The 44.0.0.0/8 subnet, otherwise known as the AMPRNet, is a public address space and is in large part already allocated to other hams and regions.  As a public address space, these addresses are routable from the Internet, as are all other public addresses, and this is their purpose.

On the other hand, any mesh is a private network which is not dependent upon Internet routability.  The 10.0.0.0/8 address space is already set aside for this purpose, does not conflict with existing Internet addresses, and is the only IPv4 space large enough to adequately allow for automatic address assignment on a large scale.  The ability to connect to the Internet is generally considered a desirable thing, and to do so one must play by the rules of the Internet.

73

ad5oo


IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2011-09-21- 16:25:26 By AD5OO for the Reason
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 03:43:01 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
I am working on getting assigned 44.86.x.x IP addresses, However I am unsure how they will fix with any HSMM I deploy, I'm new to ham radio only getting my tech license this month, but I am diving right in to the topics that interest me the most, which are AMPRnet and HSMM. I understand HSMM not being a replacement for home/business internet, but in what cases is it acceptable to attached an internet gateway onto a HSMM mesh. Surely if the Red Cross needed to access internet resources and other communications where down this would be acceptable. I don't know about Internet gateways for more generalized usage. I was hoping ad5oo could share some of his personally thoughts on this.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 03:51:02 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok
I still don't understand why adding a NAT'ing layer makes the network better. I agree the network is private, but that is taken care of by access to the wifi and ACL's on the ingress and egress points to the internet. This allows the users of the network to easily creating good content so the network has value. I am in a position where the number of likely nodes would never exceed the number of available IP's from the 44.78.0.0/16 subnet.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 04:08:24 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok

How do you plan on handling your routing table? Who will you tunnel to on the 44.0.0.0/8 network so traffic is routing in both directions?





[KF7RMM 22-09-2011 03:43:01]:

I am working on getting assigned 44.86.x.x IP addresses, However I am unsure how they will fix with any HSMM I deploy, I'm new to ham radio only getting my tech license this month, but I am diving right in to the topics that interest me the most, which are AMPRnet and HSMM. I understand HSMM not being a replacement for home/business internet, but in what cases is it acceptable to attached an internet gateway onto a HSMM mesh. Surely if the Red Cross needed to access internet resources and other communications where down this would be acceptable. I don't know about Internet gateways for more generalized usage. I was hoping ad5oo could share some of his personally thoughts on this.

IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 04:53:00 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA

First Answer

For the time being I am assuming I will not be putting anything outside of the private ip address ranges 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 onto HSMM-MESH, that being said the HSMM-MESH would be a isolated network. I don't see a need for NAT in an HSMM-MESH other then it would require less configuration.

I would rather have routing via OSPF routing tables and each node assigned its only private IP address space for devices be hide at. This would require assignment of IP address from some central authority and I do like the idea of wireless mesh nodes being compatible from different home areas with no IP address conflicts(mainly in the event of an Emergency). So the Central Authority could be a dynamic Server(s) or a national/global authority. I personally hate NAT. 

This authority is already in place for the 44.0.0.0/8 space, However that is for internet routable traffic, which would be highly use for in an emergency event. Almost as if the Node themselves could offer two modes of operation normal/private and emergency/public.

With maybe different Central Authority for both for national/global ip address assignment, one for private non-internet/normal mode and one for emergency/public internet mode.

I would also like to state that I am very open to my ideas being wrong, as far as I know it might already be done this way, most likely however it is done now is for a VERY GOOD REASON. At this point I am very much a outsider just starting to look into HSMM. 

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2011-09-22- 05:02:56 By KF7RMM for the Reason
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 05:00:51 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
as far as tunnel back into the 44.0.0.0/8 address space, this is not something I plan to do from HSMM, that being said, whatever is the acceptable application for AMPRnet (I believe this is TNC @ 1200bps or 9600bps) I plan to deploy an Telnet BBS server onto whatever Address space I am assigned for 44.86.x.x, This will get my feet wet into the AMPRnet space. I am hoping with my IP address assignment will come documentation on how to hook up to AMPRnet weather this is via satellite, local repeater or internet tunnel I do not know at this time, and I am also unsure of what protocols I will need to run to advertise my assigned IP address space, It could just be a static route from the local Wyoming Authority or they might use some dynamic protocol. I am really looking forward to these questions being answers after I get assigned my IP address space. Maybe it will be a GRE tunnel over the internet..
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 05:27:11 
KE5SWU
Member
Joined: 2011-09-20- 11:23:25
Posts: 6
Location: Beggs, Ok
I agree NAT is evil no way around it. That is why I want to use the 44 addresses, they are there for us to use. If we use the 44 addresses it also allows the users of the network to host their own servers to the world. I see no reason why this would be a bad thing. It would have be monitored but that is not to hard to do with some ACL's and packet inspection.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-22- 16:55:23 
AD5OO
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
Location

If you have gone to the effort of being allocated a subnet within the 44.0.0.0/8 space and having made the arrangements with your ISP to have that traffic routed to you, then by all means set up your network to work in that manner.  Keep in mind though that you have taken on a lot of manual configuration and administration, and you are running what is essentially a private mesh.  Nobody else could come within RF range of your mesh and expect to have their node work with yours without it being pre-configured to do so.  HSMM-MESH is not intended to bring inbound Internet access to the mesh, nor is it intended to require nodes to have a specific manual configuration to be able to use the mesh.  Putting a mesh on 44 cannot meet those goals, and there are other mesh network implementations that would be better suited for this purpose.  If you believe that the HSMM-MESH firmware really is the best tool for your job, feel free to use it but please change your SSID along with all the other settings and software that will have to be modified to make a 44 mesh work.


73
ad5oo

IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-23- 03:11:40 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
As I have stated(I believe 3 times now) I have no plans to put AMPRnet address onto HSMM.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-24- 02:49:51 
AD5OO
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:05:42
Posts: 37
Location

Sorry, I should have made it clear that my response was directed toward KE5SWU who asked the original question.  I see that you (KF7RMM) have other intentions for the 44 subnet.  If you have a 44 address, using it on the WAN side of a node is fine, but not having done that myself I do not know how that is done from an internet routing perspective.

73
ad5oo


IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2011-09-24- 03:08:43 
KF7RMM
Member
Joined: 2011-09-22- 08:32:11
Posts: 14
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
When I find out more about how the 44.x.x.x address spaced is used (I am really thinking its a GRE tunnel) I will post some over view here, We)the Global Coordinator and myself) are still trying to get ahold of the local state coordinator for Wyoming.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:44.0.0.0/8 ?.. 2012-01-03- 09:47:28 
AL4S
Member
Joined: 2010-09-19- 05:03:47
Posts: 6
Location: BP51 Anchorage Alaska USA
  

44.x.x.x Amateur IP space was reserved at a time prior to TCP/IP was generally available. 

If you look at the way it is managed/routed you would be wise to avoid it for HSMM. We have outgrown its usefulness so just use the IP space you get from your Internet provider. Start thinking about IPv6 and VPNs instead.

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2012-01-03- 09:49:05 By AL4S for the Reason
Rich Gillin - AL4S
QRV IRLP 9070 reflector
Page # 


Powered by ccBoard


SPONSORED AD: