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 Subject :Re:Cheap New Grid Antennas 24DBi.. 2013-04-20- 12:12:50 
n7ego
Member
Joined: 2013-03-06- 21:51:50
Posts: 30
Location: Cedar Hills, UT
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Cheap New Grid Antennas 24DBi

I finally found some time today to do some comparisons between directional antennas. We didn't have enough time to test my omnidirectionals, so I'll have to test those another day. There was a light rain/snow falling, so that may have affected the results. But the intensity of the precipitation remained pretty consistent through all my tests, so hopefully the results are valid in comparison to each other.

For the first round of tests the nodes were 2.9 miles apart in a mostly rural area. There were some houses between them but not nearly as many as in a suburban area. And both nodes were high enough to have a clear line of sight. One end used a cantenna made from a soup can. At the other end I tried several antennas and got these SNR ratios:

Cantenna: 5
MFJ-1800 yagi: 9
Hyperlink 19dbi parabolic grid: 12
Hyperlink 19dbi parabolic grid + 500mw amplifier: 25

We noticed that the MFJ-1800 was much more sensitive to being aimed in exactly the right direction than the other 2. But it had significantly less wind load than the parabolic grid.

We then drove to a spot that was 5.9 miles from the first node. There was now a small town between the nodes but most of the area was still rural. It was still half raining, half snowing lightly and the wind was blowing harder. We had an unobstructed line of sight back to the first node. My fingers were getting cold enough that I didn't stay long enough to try all the antennas. I measured these SNRs:

Hyperlink 19dbi parabolic grid: 10
Hyperlink 19dbi parabolic grid + 500mw amplifier: 21

I was pleased with these results given that one end of the connection was just using a soup can antenna and that we had light precipitation attenuating the signals. I was surprised that the 500mw amplifier on just one end of the connection made as big a difference as it did; I had expected it to add half as many db as it did.

I want to thank KC7OY for standing out in the snow with me and helping to conduct these tests. It would have taken much longer if I'd done them alone. I'm planning to do another round of tests in an area where I can have a 20 mile unobstructed view. But I've got some travel and other events coming up, so it may be a month or two before I get a chance to conduct those tests. I'll report back once I do.

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Last Edited On: 2013-04-20- 12:17:32 By n7ego for the Reason Fixed formatting
 Subject :Re:20dbi Omni for under $10?.. 2013-04-20- 11:14:09 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX
Forum : Hardware
Topic : 20dbi Omni for under $10?

I'm highly skeptical. 

If it does work, you'll need to be sure it's precisely aligned vertically.  It's got to have a narrow vertical pattern if it's got that much gain. 

There's probably some basic physical limitation that an omni antenna of x wavelengths can only have a gain of f(x). 

It's 15 inches long, which is 3 wavelengths.  As a very crude estimate, assume that's like 6 dipoles stacked up on top of each other.  A dipole is roughly 2 dbi.   6x power is 8 db, giving around 10 dbi.  Real antennas are probably less efficient.

As I said, that's definitely a SWAG guess.  I'm not an antenna expert.

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I'm not part of the development team, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also easily confused.

Check out the free Wireless Networking Book
 Subject :Ubiquiti Nanostation LOCO M2.. 2013-04-20- 10:04:54 
KF7MBK
Member
Joined: 2013-03-10- 23:37:37
Posts: 8
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Ubiquiti Nanostation LOCO M2

Are the Ubiquiti Nanostation LOCO M2 compatible with the mesh firmware?  What about the Bullet M?

From what I read, seems like maybe it's not supported yet, but will be soon?



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 Subject :Re:DC power draw for WRT54g routers.. 2013-04-20- 03:44:06 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX
Forum : Hardware
Topic : DC power draw for WRT54g routers

I found the following FAQ entry.

http://hsmm-mesh.org/section-blog/37-hardware-faqs/56-how-long-will-a-wrt54g-run-from-a-battery.html


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I'm not part of the development team, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also easily confused.

Check out the free Wireless Networking Book
 Subject :20dbi Omni for under $10?.. 2013-04-19- 16:01:34 
WM3V
Member
Joined: 2013-04-01- 21:39:40
Posts: 7
Location: Draper, Utah
Forum : Hardware
Topic : 20dbi Omni for under $10?

2.4GHz 20dbi RP-SMA Male Wireless WLAN Booster Omni Antenna Booster

Just ordered a couple of these.  Does anyone have any experience?  It just seems too good to be true that you can get the same gain as many of the dish antennas with a glorified rubber ducky.  That said, even if it is only 10-15dbi, it should more than do what I need done.

Anyone else have any insights?

KE7YKP

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Now WM3V
 Subject :Re:DC power draw for WRT54g routers.. 2013-04-17- 16:29:51 
KC2OTS
Member
Joined: 2013-04-16- 11:34:57
Posts: 6
Location: Eastern NY
Forum : Hardware
Topic : DC power draw for WRT54g routers

I've got a v2.2 WRT54G. After about a minute or so when it's finished booting I've measured the power draw at about 320 mA at about 12.5 volts (a 12 volt gel cell I had on hand). This is with it idling and not connected to any nodes, so I suppose if there was a lot of traffic this could be a little higher but I doubt it'd be much more.
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 Subject :Re:up and running.. 2013-04-17- 16:26:35 
KC2OTS
Member
Joined: 2013-04-16- 11:34:57
Posts: 6
Location: Eastern NY
Forum : Eastern New York
Topic : up and running

I'm in Schenectady, and I just got my first node flashed. I'm in an apartment and can't really get a good antenna up, otherwise I'd link. If I can think of something I'll let you know.
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 Subject :Biquad build.. 2013-04-17- 16:02:50 
KF7MBK
Member
Joined: 2013-03-10- 23:37:37
Posts: 8
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Biquad build

I built a biquad using the data here http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/


This antenna was very impressive for it's size.

I added it to a dish.



This setup works quite well. Combined with a 2W amp on each end, was able to do a 9.6 mile link with another station that is using that 24dBi grid antenna with a 92% link quality.  The bare biquad actually was able to do the link as well. Don't have link quality data, but it showed up on the signal strength screen.






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 Subject :Re:Get Involved!.. 2013-04-17- 14:59:18 
KF7MBK
Member
Joined: 2013-03-10- 23:37:37
Posts: 8
Location: Phoenix, AZ
 
Forum : Phoenix
Topic : Get Involved!

We are making headway here in Phoenix...slowly, but surely. www.phxmesh.com
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 Subject :Re:Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?.. 2013-04-17- 14:24:59 
NP2X
Member
Joined: 2012-06-22- 14:25:44
Posts: 24
Location: St. Croix, USVI
Forum : General
Topic : Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?

Please allow me to clarify a bit about our 47+ mile mesh link: * The majority of our path (97+%) is over salt water, which some have called "nature's amplifier". We are fortunate in this regard and the conditions are not likely to be found except in a few parts of the US. * Both ends of the path are several hundred feet above water with no obstructions * I have found that blockage by vegetation can significantly attenuate signals, depending on the type & thickness of the obstruction. * Be mindful of blockage within the Fresnel zone of the path * Mesh is most certainly a "line of sight" propagation mechanism, but higher power helps on those paths which become "link-limited" due to free-space path loss Hope this helps & good luck on linking up on those long paths. 73, Fred, NP2X
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 Subject :Re:Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?.. 2013-04-17- 02:14:12 
n7ego
Member
Joined: 2013-03-06- 21:51:50
Posts: 30
Location: Cedar Hills, UT
Forum : General
Topic : Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?

Unfortunately there is a line of tall trees south of my location, so I can't reach Spanish Fork from here. However I am working on putting together some portable units, and once I do I intend to try them out from various locations in the valley to see what I can reach.
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 Subject :Re:DC power draw for WRT54g routers.. 2013-04-17- 00:25:24 
WA8ZLK
Member
Joined: 2012-12-16- 21:19:20
Posts: 9
Location: Youngstown, OH
Forum : Hardware
Topic : DC power draw for WRT54g routers

I suppose I could measure the current draw...but I didn't want to make a lab project out of it. I may have to do that since I don't see the info anywhere here or on the DD-WRT sites.  May checkout Cisco site first.

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 Subject :Re:Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?.. 2013-04-16- 18:30:02 
kd7vea
Member
Joined: 2013-04-14- 17:29:45
Posts: 16
Location: spanish fork utah
Forum : General
Topic : Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?

I dont know ow your 30 mile test went, but if you want to try an 18 mile test, I am just about ready to get my setup mounted up on my antenna mast (around 30 feet high) I am just trying to figure out if I am going to run a lower gain omni, or a 24 dbi grid. I am new to the hsmm-mesh network, I heard some guys talking about it on a local repeater, and being in networking, this seems right up my alley.
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 Subject :Re:Toronto / York Region Introduction.. 2013-04-15- 09:15:37 
va3srv
Member
Joined: 2012-10-30- 14:19:01
Posts: 9
Location
Forum : Ontario Canada
Topic : Toronto / York Region Introduction

Hi Anthony, I think that sounds like a great idea. We are trying to set up a Demo for the York Region Emergency Preparedness day May 4th at the York Region HQ in Newmarket. We'll be attempting to deploy a small area Mesh and that could be an opportunity to check things out. Drop me a line on the side and we can coordinate more: va3srv@geee-mail.com (edit appropriately! ;) Cheers Steve VA3SRV
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 Subject :Re:Toronto / York Region Introduction.. 2013-04-15- 01:17:44 
va3idl
Member
Joined: 2013-04-14- 07:22:02
Posts: 23
Location
Forum : Ontario Canada
Topic : Toronto / York Region Introduction

Greg, Matt, Steve,

There is a substantial interest in this project at the Mississauga club http://marc.on.ca now and we are looking to make a pilot installation for the Field Day.

We were wondering if it is possible for a few of us to come to one of your club meetings or meet you elsewhere and have a longer discussion on the subject, share the experience and ideas. Would it be possible to meet with you around mid- or early-May?

Thank you,

Anthony

VA3IDL

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Last Edited On: 2013-04-15- 01:27:59 By va3idl for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?.. 2013-04-14- 11:59:17 
n7ego
Member
Joined: 2013-03-06- 21:51:50
Posts: 30
Location: Cedar Hills, UT
Forum : General
Topic : Longest NA Mesh 2-Way Contact?

What did you learn along the way that let you extend the distance on your most recent tests? Were you still using the same antennas as before? Did you try any other antennas at these distances? I'm preparing to do a 30 mile link to help with an event in October, and I'd like to learn as much as I can about what has and has not worked for others.
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 Subject :Re:Getting started and finding hardware.. 2013-04-14- 08:47:27 
KB8YGA
Member
Joined: 2013-01-04- 18:34:50
Posts: 2
Location
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Getting started and finding hardware

Thanks for the info, I'll be getting some equipment then!

By the way, great site here with a lot of good information.  I had been thinking about why Hams seem to be stuck at 1200 and 9600 buad, and then found this site.  Now there are some options to move data at some higher speeds.

Will

KB8YGA





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 Subject :Re:up and running.. 2013-04-14- 03:22:22 
KM2O
Member
Joined: 2012-09-22- 11:04:45
Posts: 25
Location: Albany NY
Forum : Eastern New York
Topic : up and running

Tom, Thanks very much for leading the way! Dave KM2O
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 Subject :Re:Getting started and finding hardware.. 2013-04-13- 16:35:04 
KD5MFW
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:02:11
Posts: 104
Location
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Getting started and finding hardware

Try Amazon.com or NewEgg.com

Look for the WRT54GL, have a method of payment and tell them how many you want.  They are about $50.00 each, new.

-Glenn

KD5MFW

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 Subject :Getting started and finding hardware.. 2013-04-13- 16:26:19 
KB8YGA
Member
Joined: 2013-01-04- 18:34:50
Posts: 2
Location
Forum : Hardware
Topic : Getting started and finding hardware


I have been looking at the HSMM-MESH materials for a while and was thinking about trying it out.  After reviewing the hardware guide, it seems that only earlier versions of the various routers are useable.   Is there any current production models that would work?  Something I could pick up from Amazon or Newegg etc? 

Thanks,

Will

KB8YGA




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